Livebaiting

**marcelxl** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Livebaiting

An issue which usually divides us anglers!

I have quite strong feelings about this, enough to email Anglers Mail this week in reply to somebodies letter urging us all to stop livebaiting. I personally feel this man who put this letter in is an idiot as he states that putting a hook in a fish and casting it out in order to catch a predators is cruel and then he states that the fish will throw the hooks after hooking said predator and "writhes in pain (don`t use the excuse that fish can`t feel pain)" and then goes on about fueling the antis fires and hes been an angler for 68yrs. What an idiot and very short sighted. In my opinion a comment coming from "an angler of 68yrs" like this is perfect fuel for the antis, does anyboby seriously think that the antis are going to seperate hooking a livebait (this would even include maggots & worms I should think) and casting out, from striking, hooking, playing & landing? I doubt that very much.
My stand on this is, as primarily a passionate predator angler I do NOT livebait and haven`t for yrs, however this is not an ethical stance at all but prefer to use the lures, deads and now flies and just cannot be bothered with the hassle of catching, keeping/storing etc, then casting them off. But it is THE most effective way of catching any predator and if you want to use a "livey" and its allowed and not been brought in from another venue (this is where Pike anglers shoot themselves in the foot) then do so, it is your choice, likewise if Mr Angler of 68yrs does not want to, then he shouldn`t.
I support the legal use of livebaiting 100% and just because I`m not into it, does not mean I can preach to others about whats right and wrong.
Now give me a minute to get off my soapbox!

So, I ask you what is your opinion on the use of livebaits?

**Mart** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject:

i'm all for livebaiting as and where its allowed i think its an excellent method for predators i went through a period where i thought it didn't seem the right thing to do but its only nature that a pedators going to hunt prey wether its got trebles attatched or not so it might as well be my prey it takes. if you decide not to do something you could well be missing out.

i share your views that it is sometimes an absolute pain in the arse trying to catch lives but thats part of the fun in winter fishing imo
_________________
Kiss my spreader block!!!!!!!!!!

**Giles** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject:

Did they post the Jerkit

adddress so we can all throw bricks at him?

Live baiting is spot on in my books I've not done a year without fishing a livey at some point. That article is just anti fuel.

"May the authors arse be infested with the flies of a thousand Camels"
_________________
I can see NSA staff getting a bitch slapping from the boss for pissing about with my signature!

**damo** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject:

I read the letter too and thought it a bit hypocritical. As you say how can you diferentiate between live fish and say, live worms etc and even more so if you are an 'non-angler'.

I personally rarely livebait and only do if I am say fishing for roach and being perstered by pike and happen to have heavier tackle with me. I certainly wouldn't transport fish from one water to another cos' its ilegal and , if i'm being totally honest, far too much bloody hassle.

Each to thier own though but I would be extremely miffed if I thought an angler was transporting fish between waters. Play the bloody game.
_________________
damo

Last one in the Angling Star is a numpty

WKD · NSA Guru Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 225

Agree with everything that has been said Respect

What makes me laugh about the author if he as been angling for 68 years he would most probably then been fishing in the era when the killing of fish that were caught especially pike was common practice wonder if he complained then. But was safe in the knowledge that he did it without using livebaits Jerkit

**marcelxl** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject:

Let us see if my letter gets published, which i doubt unless the editor does his job and edits and he may have to censor some parts!

Good answers fellers, glad you`re on board with this one! Respect

To me the implecations of saying things like this in print are very dangerous and damaging to us all as anglers. It is solidarity between all fishing disciplines and not fragmentation that is needed with the current climate with the antis, PC brigade, bloody climate & weather, over fishing, eastern europeans all making things increasingly difficult for us.
To think one or some of "our own" actively goes around making these stupid comments in the national press beggars belief.
I hate to get all political, but the older I get the more militant I seem to become and I`m finding harder to suffer these fools!

**Mart** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject:

just to add to my previous post when i do livebait i only use a single treble and lip hook the bait so surely this does less damage than billy bunter on the snake lake using a telegraph pole and bungee cord Big Smile

, if i dont get a take on the livebait at the end of the session its thrown back and swims off, i've seen some people hook livebaits in the root of the tail with single trebles but i just dont see the theory
_________________
Kiss my spreader block!!!!!!!!!!

**damo** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:

I do the same but use a single size 2 or 4 through the lip and if it doesn't produce then back it goes.
_________________
damo

Last one in the Angling Star is a numpty

**Mart** · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject:

my perch livebaitings done with a size 10 single hook but i only use minnows anyway
_________________
Kiss my spreader block!!!!!!!!!!

**marcelxl** · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject:

Is it just me or do we have a duty to not let things like this go unchallenged?

Are some people just in a "confort zone" and are OK with things as they are, and our future is secure, the antis have no power and we are developing more of a concience that it is ok to hook a fish when we catch them, as we love them and we cradle them and do our utmost to make sure they are returned "unharmed" and livebaiting is "unethical" therefore we are a minority within a minority (fieldsportsman) and it is us who needs to move with the times and accept change?

I really believe however our future is more uncertain since the hunting ban and we dropped a great big b*ll*ck by not giving the countryside alliance more support, because next on the line will be shooting, then it will be us then farming livestock, then keeping pets as the antis are just that,anti, and they will move on to the next protest because thats all they want really, that is to protest and get heard safely in numbers. Unfortunate fools with hollow lives have nothing better to do. This is just one of the obstacles we now have without mentioning the short term impacts of the usual polution, fish eating animals (cormarants, otters, eastern europeans) invasive species, climate and floodings, RSPB buying up waters and slapping a fishing ban, etc,etc.
This is why stupid comments like Mr Webbs should not go unchallenged and other comments just need not be made. I know on here we all have a laugh and banter, take the p*ss and there is nothing more I like than winding up robotic carp anglers and the like, mainly for having no imagination!! especially as more and more commercials are popping up and this where more anglers are now doing it, meaning seasoned, experienced and dare I say better and more informed anglers are getting less in numbers, and we should make a point of doing something helpfull.
How many members are ACA members? we should all be i reckon, they have a great record for doing good. Also some of the single species groups do stirling work, like the PAC (they have just taken control of Fairburn from under the RSPB)
Don`t get me wrong, I`m not a total doom-monger!! I would just like to see more strength from within the ranks and more people actively doing something positive (even joining the ACA) in some capacity.

Rant over, thank you for indulging me!!

may the usual talking of bollocks, lying about captures and general gobshitery services resume now!

**Giles** · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

**marcelxl** · Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:06 am Post subject:

In the past I`ve shyed away from the politics of it all, but I`ve now changed for definate and if that means I`ve become a "political firebrand" then so be it, at least there`ll be Giles keeping me company!!
My views seem to reflect EVERYONE else who I`ve spoke to about it which is reassuring.
That letter and then the fact I felt compelled to reply to it fired me up (actually p*ssed me off!) and I`m more than happy to voice opinions and I`m glad the hardcore of members on here seem to agree and will no doubt sound off the next time some sausage brain engages pen before brain! Jerkit

"DON`T GET PUSHED, PUSH BACK!"

perfect!

**marcelxl** · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject:

Got the mail today, and no surprises-my letter went unprinted (this week) instead choosing utter b*ll*cks content to dominate, indeed letter of the week is summat about catching barbel on bread(cutting edge journalism, that is!)

At least we all got something off our chests!

**marcelxl**

Got this from the PAC website and thought it relevant. This is the official code of practice.

Specialist Anglers' Alliance Pike Anglers' Club of G.B.

Since fish first swam, millions of years ago, whether in fresh or saltwater, they consumed other creatures as part of their diet. They still do. In seeking to offer baits which are natural, and behave so, anglers may consider the use of live grubs, worms, crustacean or fish as bait. The use of live fish as bait is an established, legal angling method which is highly effective in freshwater fishing for pike, eels, catfish, perch and zander. The method may also be used for chub and - where permitted - trout.

There is no difference between using live fish and any other type of live bait, bearing in mind that there is no scientific evidence to support the assertion that fish feel pain. However, to avoid possible conflict with those who may not share this view it is imperative that when livebaiting, anglers should do so in a responsible manner, both in terms of obeying the law and in terms of conservation.

General principles

Always check the fishery rules before using livebaits. It is essential to ensure that livebaiting is permitted on the water you are fishing. Also ensure that the fish to be used are in ready supply. Fish stocks must not be depleted and 'specimen' fish or 'rare' species must never be used.

Never introduce or remove fish to or from any water without the permission of the fishery owner.

You should check regional byelaws to ensure that you conform with any restriction on the number of livebaits you take and the method by which they are retained.

Transfer of livebaits between waters carries the same risks as fish stocking. Unauthorised introduction of fish into any waters may upset the ecological balance and damage the fishery through the spread of either unsuitable fish species, or harmful diseases and parasites.

In England and Wales, Section 30 of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act1975, states that you must have written permission (consent) from the Environment Agency before you introduce fish into any inland water. This includes fish which are health certified and come from a reputable source.

Although no such legislation currently applies in Scotland it is recommended that, for as long as this situation prevails, anglers in Scotland also take account of the following guidelines.

Using livebaits on the water from which they are taken

When using livebaits from the fishery from which they were caught, they should be retained and used there preferably on the same day.

Stillwaters - Most are self contained and in England and Wales Section 30 will only be required for livebaits brought to the water from elsewhere.

Rivers, Canals and Drains - In general anglers may transfer livebaits between adjacent stretches of the same river or canal without Section 30 consent, providing that this does not involve carrying them in a vehicle. Anglers wishing to move livebaits further than they might walk during the course of a day's fishing are advised to apply for Section 30 Consent.

Using livebaits on other waters

If you wish to transfer livebaits between any waters in England and Wales you must first obtain Section 30 consent. Applications for Section 30 consent to introduce fish which are intended for use as livebaits are treated in exactly the same way as any other application for the introduction of new fish stocks.

It usually takes about 10 working days for the Environment Agency to process an application and issue your consent. In certain circumstances it might take longer so plan well ahead.

Section 30 Consent is normally a one-off permission issued for a specific date and site. Your application must give the exact date you plan to introduce fish. After the EA has provided your Section 30 Consent, you can only change the date you plan to introduce the fish in exceptional circumstances. It may be possible to obtain consent which covers more than one date, or between a range of dates. This is known as a 'Block Consent'. It may be used, for example,

i) if you want to introduce trout bought from a single registered fish farm - to be used as livebait at the same site (still water) where the Agency judges the ecological risks are minimal.

ii) if you plan to introduce coarse fish into a water where the Agency would not normally insist on a health check (so-called 'non-mandatory' waters that are totally enclosed)

For specific advice on the use of Section 30 Consent in England and Wales you can contact the Environment Agency on 0845 933 3111, alternatively the telephone number for your local Environment Agency office is provided on your rod licence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issued by the Specialist Anglers' Alliance in conjunction with the Pike Anglers' Club of Great Britain, for and on behalf of the following group members:
National Anguilla Club, Eel Study Group, Zander Anglers Club, Catfish Society, Catfish Conservation Group, Chub Study Group and The Perchfishers.

**marcelxl** · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject:

They`ve only printed my letter, albeit watered down and edited but nether the less in print!

Autographs at next social! Cool

God bless Anglers Mail!

**Giles** · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject:

OK Mate, Post up the original and the watered down one on here so we can have a laugh at the magazine. I'll be fooked if i'm going to buy a copy just to read your article. Grin

_________________
I can see NSA staff getting a bitch slapping from the boss for pissing about with my signature!

**marcelxl** · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject:

This was the letter sent;

I totally disagree to Mr Webbs comments in his letter "stop the livebaiting" The only person fueling the fires of the anti-cruel-sports brigade here is Mr Webb. Do you seriously think that tha antis see the difference between hooking fish to be used as bait or maggot or a worm for that matter, and hooking a fish fairly, playing it and landing it?
Comments like "This poor fish hasn`t a chance in hell as it swims and writhe in pain" is exactly what antis want to hear, especially from an "angler for 68 years" and is very short sighted.
I am a passionate predator angler and I do NOT livebait by the way and haven`t done for years. This is not down to the ethics, but personally find it a hassle with the catching & storing etc and I`m more than happy to use lures, flies and deadbaits and 100% support any anglers wishing to livebait where permitted so long as thay have not been brought in from other venues. I believe it should be down to choice, and if the likes of Mr Webb don`t want to livebait, then they shouldn`t, end of story.
These days it is solidarity between different angling disciplines and supporting all legitimate methods that is needed not dangerous and damaging comments by one of our own.
M. Britton,
W. Yorks

**Giles** · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject:

_________________
I can see NSA staff getting a bitch slapping from the boss for pissing about with my signature!

**damo** · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject:

To be fair Marc I flicked through the pages of the Mail in the last couple of weeks and it was so full of imaginitive writings and busting with.............. ZZZZZ

Come to think of it was full of shite as usual and probably avoiding heatly debate.

God forbid it might get interesting.
_________________
damo

Last one in the Angling Star is a numpty

**Giles** · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject:

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